User talk:Lệ Xuân/Archive 3

History of History

• I would advise this video for you, it's quite Eurocentric and the author is very biased but this is quite a good video about historiography. Vietnamese historians as of 2021 are still very opposed to "Transnational historiography" and try to isolate Vietnam as much in service of "the nation state", that a lot of this "nation state-thinking" is derived from German philosophy is actually quite understandable as many German thinkers tried to "think" a German nation state into existence and German historiography was a powerful propaganda tool was used by them (and is still being used by German nationalists today). This type of thinking is unfortunately still very common among historians today, especially in extremely nationalistic societies like Vietnam and the People's Republic of China where history only exists to "confirm the present" (read: "confirm the present ideology").

This also explains some users pushing narratives like this. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 10:29, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Tks. I'll watch the video in the evening. LX | Talk 13:47, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Flag of RVNMF during Diem's era

I made two images for the flag of RVNMF in Ngo Dinh Diem's era (cf. File:Flag of the RVNMF (1955–1965).svg), as I saw some sources shown that the flag kept similarity to that of the Vietnamese National Army. It would be nice if you can give some further improvements based on better sources. Regards. --Great Brightstar (talk) 13:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

@Great Brightstar Not really at the moment, but if somehow I come across sources containing this flag in the future as I plan to rewrite the article on Ngo Dinh Diem on Wikipedia, I will surely let you know. Regards. LX | Talk 19:45, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

"Southern sounds"

I just found this article that mentioned a Thành Thái era decree where Latin script was referred to as "Nam âm" rather than "Quốc ngữ". I know that in French Cochinchina Vietnamese Latin script was referred to as "Quốc ngữ" thanks to Petrus Kỳ since the 1860's, but I genuinely wasn't aware of any alternative names used in the Nguyễn Dynasty (French protectorates of Annam and Tonkin) as I've even seen the Traditional Chinese characters "語國" being used in some later works. I know that Latin script was heavily pushed for by the French as it makes introducing French ideas and words. Something I noticed most historians seem to miss is how different the societies of French Cochinchina and the Nguyễn Dynasty were throughout their coexistence, the direct French influence made Cochinchine as different from the Nguyễn as the People's Republic of China is today from the Republic of China 🇹🇼, similar countries with different scripts and massively different cultures. The Nguyễn Dynasty remained authoritarian while French Cochinchina had elected indigenous officials. I think that by just looking at the phrase "the French divided Vietnam into three (3)" without really looking at how these entities were with three different cultures in three different countries.

I know that you work with some early "Quốc ngữ" texts, do you ever come across alternative names for the script if you come across them at all?

This is likely not how the script was called but the language, note that the country was called "Đại-Nam" so the language of a country called "the Great South" would have likely been called "Southern" (see the section above). Which confirms my suspicion that Latin script simply just replaced Nôm script as it spread. I am planning on writing a large article about the society of the Nguyễn Dynasty in the future and how it transformed from 1802 to 1945 and I think that the slow adoption of Latin script is probably also a field that should be included there as it's very hard to pinpoint when exactly Traditional Chinese characters disappeared from everyday writing. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 06:59, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

As a quick sidenote, I think that "Quốc ngữ" was adopted as a term by the French Cochinchinese because it was the only way to convey the language was "national" as opposed to "international" (Classical Chinese) or "foreign" (French), while in the Nguyễn Dynasty it was only adopted after the Đông Kinh Nghĩa Thục (chữ Hán: 東京義塾) popularised the term based on French Cochinchinese intellectuals (as French Cochinchina was producing intellectuals independent from the Nguyễn Dynasty, often that modernised more quickly and adopted French ideas before the Nguyễn had). I actually agree with the article that's it is odd to see Việt Nam being one of the few Indo-Chinese countries that exclusively uses Latin script (the other one, not mentioned, is Malaysia, which replaced Arabic script). I think that the situation in Việt Nam can be compared to both Turkey and Korea, in Turkey it were Francophile intellectuals that pushed for Latin script because they saw the native script (Arabic) as "archaic" and "connected to old ideas", Korea and Mainland China likewise got rid of Traditional Chinese characters. Japan simplified some but not at the PRC's scale, there are Taiwanese nationalists that call for the complete abolition of Traditional Chinese script replacing it with Latin script but so far these people are at the extreme fringe.

Generally speaking Việt Nam and Korea are "twin countries" so comparing these situations work the best. Especially since both ended up in nearly identical situations where Socialist regimes in the North and Capitalist regimes in the south fought what can almost be described as "the same war in different places" and all four (4) regimes got ultranationalistic leaders that promoted the new script. The largest differences being that South Vietnam was the only one that didn't use Traditional Chinese characters during the early 1950's, this is likely because in Korea and the former Nguyễn Dynasty they had to be stamped out but in Saigon they were not used at all (excluding the large populations of Thanh nhân, likely already called "Hoa", there of course). The analogy doesn't always work... Anyhow, it isn't easy to point exact dates when Traditional Chinese characters disappeared in most of Korea and Vietnam, but these trends weren't as "common sense" and "inevitable" as many nationalist historians from both Vietnam and Korea often make them out to be. I'm mostly blaming World War II for most of these outcomes. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Donald Trung I wouldn't call the "Quốc ngữ" texts I've worked with as early, but rather mid, as they mostly appeared after the 1920s and mostly come from French Cochinchina instead of Annam. Some of the texts usually call Vietnamese things by using the prefix "Quốc", probably influenced by the Chinese. So we have Quốc-sử for Vietnamese history, Quốc-dân for Vietnamese people, etc. but I haven't seen any alternative names for Tiếng Việt just yet. One thing that surprised me is the name Viet-Nam itself, which I found in some Quốc ngữ texts from the early 20th century. As you know, the country's official name was still Đại-nam at this time, but for some reason the name Viet-Nam was popular among the population. LX | Talk 11:48, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The Bản quốc dư đồ.

"Việt-Nam" was a very popular name during the 1920's and 1930's, I was surprised how often former Viceroy of Tonkin, His Excellency Hoàng Cao Khải (黃高啟) used it in his informal writing (I found some on a website I can't remember while looking for his office seal), but found that in his formal writings he always used the terms "Ngã quốc" (我國) in Classical Chinese and "Nước ta" in Vietnamese. What I find interesting is that his 1910 work on Vietnamese history in Classical Chinese is called "The Mirror of Việt History", while the same version in Romanised Vietnamese is called "The Mirror of Southern History". It is clear that in his 1910 writings he already uses a lot of the terms and familiar nationalistic writings that modern Vietnamese historians still cling onto in 2021. I think that the term "Việt Nam" became popular because it was something that indicated "this is the country of the Việt people", but I have trouble pinpointing when this occurred. Check out the map I placed here showing both the terms "Việt Nam" and "Annam" on a Classical Chinese map. It is interesting that a lot of early 20th century intellectuals also used the term "Annam" to refer to the country, including a number of Communists. The idea that "Annam is a slur" only seems to have come about after 1945. I suspect that "Việt Nam" probably meant "Đại-Nam + Nam-Kỳ" as a unification of the three (3) countries rather than seeing them as three separate entities (note that I refer to the Nguyễn Dynasty as two (2) different countries but discuss it as one, this is a deliberate choice). --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:47, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

As a side note, Hoàng Cao Khải always called France Pha-lang-sa (chữ Hán: "坡郎沙"), but the French always referred to themselves as "Đại-Pháp Quốc" (大法國) as far as I can find during the 1860's already. I wonder if he did this as a form of protest or just because it was the mainstream name for most people at the time. I mostly research government documents so reading non-administrative showcase a lot of odd terms for me. As far as I know the French were always "Pháp" or "Tây", but I wasn't aware of the many other names. In Qingdao the Germans also called themselves "Đại-Đức Để-Quốc" or simply "Đại-Đức", now I wonder if their Chinese subjects called them this or something else. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:02, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Going through the article, I notice that the changes in Nguyễn Dynasty society at the time are presented as "escaping China" and "embracing independence from Chinese influence" but it is clear that the adoption of Latin script and the cutting of hair were just emulating the French and French Cochinchinese (both of whom probably looked down on the Annamese and Tonkinese for being "less French" than them) and a part of integrating in the world of elites is emulating elites. It is kind of weird how the people that yell the hardest against "foreign aggression" embrace the French and Americans (just not their Vietnamese allies, I mean "collaborators" and "traitors" Should have read to the end, anti-Communists use literally the exact same ultranationalist language as the commies, they just have this weird love-hate relationship with colonialism, like the Taiwanese nationalists do, because they understand that their entire worldview and "not being Chinese" came from colonialism they go through weird hoops of both apologetics and condemnation, at least Koreans consistently hate their colonial rulers, which in my experience is equally bad but for different reasons) as long as that can be used as a middle finger 🖕🏻 against anything they even mildly perceive as "Chinese". I think that the Nguyễn elites wanted to escape (Neo-)Confucianism, not "Chinese", basically all Vietnamese revolutionaries got their ideas from China and spent most of their time in China, including Uncle Ho. This anti-Chinese narrative always puts an odd spin on everything, excuse me for venting my frustrations with the Sinophobia and misosinia from this article here. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 14:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

File:Imperial headgear Nguyen era NMVH EDAV.jpg

Lệ Xuân ơi, tấm này đẹp quá nè. Chắc đủ để ứng cử featured picture nè. —  Băng Tỏa  11:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

@Băng Tỏa Hình này hơi tối dù mình đã photoshop cho nó sáng rồi. Đề cử quality picture thì chắc vẫn được. LX | Talk 11:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Đề nghị xóa

Mong bạn xóa hình: Tiem-nang-phat-trien-vinhomes-smart-city.jpg vì hình này được tải lên để quảng cáo. Xem ở bài: vi:Cộng đông quốc tế phía Tây Thủ Đô. --TARGET6tidiem (talk) 13:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@TARGET6tidiem: Đối với các hình quảng cáo bạn chỉ cần dùng mã {{SD|G10}} để yêu cầu xóa là được. Xem thêm: COM:CSD. LX | Talk 15:36, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Hỏi

Chào Xuân. Hình này có rơi vào COM:TOO không? Chữ thì ổn, vấn đề là biểu tượng hình ngọn cỏ có vẻ hơi phức tạp (nhưng chưa quá cầu kỳ như hình này). Chờ ý kiến từ bạn. ⁂๖ۣۜJon ♥ ๖ۣۜDaenerys໖ 04:21, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

@Nguyenhai314: Tôi nghĩ là nó đủ đơn giản để bất kỳ ai cũng có thể sao chép. Tuy nhiên gần đây có tranh luận liên quan tới logo của NBA về vấn đề tương tự, có thể bạn sẽ hứng thú. LX | Talk 17:30, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

File:201209 에스파 Aespa at SBS Radio.jpg

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Paper9oll (talk) 16:30, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

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This media was probably deleted.

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Yuval Y § Chat § 16:58, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Nhờ review

Lệ Xuân review giúp tôi 2 hình trong nhóm này: File:Khanh Vy (cropped).jpg nhé. Cảm ơn rất nhiều. ⁂๖ۣۜJon ♥ ๖ۣۜDaenerys໖ 17:05, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

@Nguyenhai314  Done Chỉ cần review hình gốc, hình cropped – theo những gì tôi tìm hiểu – không cần phải review riêng (miễn là nó có link dẫn đến hình gốc) LX | Talk 18:36, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Xuân review thêm một hình nữa nhé: File:Tân Nhàn.png. Cảm ơn rất nhiều. ⁂๖ۣۜJon ♥ ๖ۣۜDaenerys໖ 03:44, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Đề nghị xóa

Đề nghị bạn xóa: LOGO UPO màu cam.png vì ảnh này dùng để quảng cáo một công ti hay một sản phẩm nào đó. Xem ở: w:vi:Tổ chức giáo dục UPO. TARGET6tidiem^{Talk ✉} 00:58, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Classical Chinese translation machine

This might be of interest to you.

I just noticed this, but apparently Microsoft has been working on a Classical Chinese translation machine. Unfortunately... it's shit, not only does it treat Classical Chinese like "modern Chinese" (Mandarin, "the least Chinese of the Chinese languages") but it also only translates using Simplified Chinese characters, there is this mentality that "Chinese characters are all the same just evolving", but this is somewhat of a fallacy. Seal script, Traditional Chinese characters, and Simplified Chinese characters are as comparable as Greek, Etruscan, and Latin, I don't think that many modern Latin readers can read this but let's be honest, over a billion people can read Simplified Chinese characters while Traditional Chinese characters are increasingly disappearing outside of Taiwan and I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of decades they will become "Taiwanese characters". As of now the translation machine doesn't work, but in the future such a machine might be handy for Wikisource. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:22, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

@Donald Trung There is a website called https://vietphrase.info – a word-by-word Chinese-Vietnamese translation tool. I hardly ever use it, but I've seen a lot of people use this tool to translate texts from zhwp to viwp. In all honesty, it's not that bad (but that only goes for Mandarin of course). It can recognize both simplified and traditional Chinese (Taiwanese) characters. The fact that both Vietnamese and Mandarin have a relatively simple grammatical structure (at least when compared to French or German) made word-by-word translation quite useful. The biggest downside, however, is that the translated text contains way too many Han-Viet words that didn't even exist in both modern and ancient Vietnamese. The Han Viet words make the text sound great, but no ordinary person will fully understand what it means. However, if you know how to use it properly, this tool can be very useful. LX | Talk 12:12, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I bookmarked it. I am glad that there at least is some interest in Classical Chinese, just a decade ago it was taboo essentially everywhere outside of Japan and the Republic of China ("Taiwan"), South Korea was the first to revive their interest in it and Mainland China and Vietnam seem to be slowly following South Korea. Somehow I suspect that the South Korean soft-power in the form of it being featured in K-drama and K-pop being partially responsible for this revived interest in Chinese civilisation in Mainland China and Vietnam. Also, the Xi Jinping regime seems to be a lot more "pro-history" and invests more into historical research than previous CCP administrations. So it's likely multiple factors playing into this, anyhow, Latin experienced a similar revival thanks to the internet in the west, there seem to be whole online communities of people that speak fluent Reconstructed Latin and more often than not when I hear Latin these days it's in Reconstructed Latin rather than Ecclesiastical Latin as was common a decade ago. With Chinese I see an opposite trend where it becomes more Mandocentric, even retrofitting Mandarin grammar and vocabulary onto Classical Chinese, but I assume that this is only a temporary trend before more accurate Classical Chinese becomes popular. Like reconstructed Old Chinese being something that people try to talk to, although really rarely. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:08, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to East Asian & Vietnamese sigillography

		The Barnstar of Oriental sigillography
		I don't think that there's any person more deserving of this barnstar than you. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! I really appreciated it! LX | Talk 12:14, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

You are invited to take part in this discussion

Please see "[[Commons:Village pump/Copyright#The eligibility of {{PD-South VietnamGov}} copyright tag]]" (permalink). I can't get the link right as there is a template in the title, you were a vocal opponent of it so your perspective is welcome. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:13, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

File:0424 成团夜 少年的模样 刘宇 （1）.jpg

Chào bạn, nhờ bạn xem qua hình này. Cảm ơn trước. Unnamed User^{Name me} 09:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

@NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh: Ở cuối trang web có biểu tượng dẫn tới trang này. Nhưng cái này chắc phải có kiểm tra thêm, không rõ cách hoạt động của trang lofter này lắm.--Ltn12345 (talk) 15:40, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh Hình này ổn, tôi không thấy vấn đề gì với nó cả. @Ltn12345 Các trang blog như lofter của TQ hay tistory của HQ hoạt động gần giống nhau. Chỉ cần có cái biểu tượng đó ở cuối trang là đủ. Điều quan trọng nhất là phải kiểm tra xem ảnh có chính chủ hay không thôi, tránh license laudering. LX | Talk 11:24, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Proposed flags of the First Republic of Vietnam

At the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia I found the sentence "Thời Ngô Đình Diệm dự định thay lá cờ này và đã tuyển 350 mẫu cờ của 350 người dự thi, nhưng không chọn được mẫu cờ thay thế nào cả." However, I haven't been able to find any of these proposals, do you think that an online record of them exists? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:32, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: I'm not sure. This information seems to come from the memoir of Đỗ Mẫu or something like that. Surely there must be newspapers at the time that reported on this event. But the chance of finding these newspapers online – in case there are people who have collected them – is likely very small. I've seen a lot newspapers from the Thieu era, but not very many from the First Republic. LX | Talk 11:15, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Alright, thank you for the advice. Unfortunately finding old newspapers isn't an easy thing, especially for those from defunct countries. I think that it's easy for places like the United States of America 🇺🇸 where people have a culture of wanting to preserve everything no matter how "irrelevant" it may look for others, but finding old British newspaper articles that aren't behind a paywall is rare, so I don't imagine this to be common for South Vietnam either and many people have simply chosen to forget the First Vietnamese Republic, likely because they see it as "a Christian supremacist dictatorship" (which it was).

 Unrelated I saw that you redirected this page, too bad because I actually liked your version more because of the humour. I think that people like him should be treated as how they act, like clowns 🤡. Also, I have been looking for Later Lê Dynasty Imperial seals but it seems like it's uncommon to find scans of documents from that period online, most Nôm libraries only care about actual books 📚 and poetry rather than government documents from the era. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:54, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Há cảo

Há cảo

"Nhớ giữ gìn sức khỏe", tao chưa bao giờ nói thế cả, vì lần đéo nào tao cũng lừa mày. Tin vui là tao đủ "ghét" mày rồi, chắc là tốt cho tao. Tin buồn là như mọi lần, mày sẽ không biết cái tin nhắn này có phải tin nhắn cuối không? Đùa thôi, cuối thật đấy, mày biết mục đích ban đầu tao tham gia Wikipedia mà, thật ra, tới bây giờ nó vẫn không đổi. Thực ra thì bọn mình đỉnh vãi lồn, nhìn cái đống bài dài ngoằng đấy kìa: Nhà Minh, Nhà Tống, Nhà Hán, Adolf Hilter, Nguyễn Văn Thiệu,... Tao đề cử bài nhà Hán rồi. Ờm, đương nhiên là chỉ có thời gian mới cho mày biết đây có phải lần cuối không thôi. Lần này khác mấy lần trước nhiều, Wikipedia này có mỗi hai người, mày đi rồi cũng chán. Hán Vũ Đế (talk) 09:34, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Help me to investigate

Hello, can you help me to investigate about a Vietnamese literature work? Several days ago, I've discovered a work about the Vietnam War, which knows as 南方来信 Letter From the South for us. I saw there is an article described that:

• 南方来信：越南现代文学在中国的译介和传播

According above article, this should be named Letter from the Fatherland in Vietnam (in this article, 祖国来信), including a series of letters talk about the war, this was translated in Chinese in January 1964. In China, this was published between May and July of the same year, and later derived as straight play, manga, and even Peking Opera (I added them in Outline of the Vietnam War). So in China this became the most notable Vietnamese work at the times. If you're able to known about more information about this Letter from the Fatherland, I hope you let me know. Thanks. -- Great Brightstar (talk) 15:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

@Great Brightstar: , excuse the late reply as I have a lot of things off-wiki to attend to lately. Anyhow, thank you for bringing this to my attention as I have never heard of the Tổ Quốc Lai Tín (祖國來信) before and it sounds very interesting to me so when I have the time I will investigate it. But as it will be quite some time until I am available again for such things I would advise you to e-mail Lê Minh Khải at "liam.kelley@ubd.edu.bn" as he has a lot of access to PRC-North Vietnamese relations-related works and has wrote about the propaganda from both related to each other. Please update me if he gives you something. --Donald Trung (talk) 19:09, 27 October 2021 (UTC) . --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

A user left me the above message, maybe you could help them out as this time period is (still) outside of my expertise. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:58, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: I already replied to him on my talk page last month (see here). As mentioned, I think these letters are no longer popular in Vietnam these days. Probably no longer needed for propaganda purposes I guest. Ironically, some of the places where I have found some text passages from these letters are anti-communist pages on Facebook, where people made jokes about the "unrealistic" contents. LX | Talk 23:42, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Alright, thank you for the information. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:49, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Musée Chine

If you want to have a laugh, check out Musée Annam's "contributions" to the Mandarin Chinese-language Wikipedia, they do stuff like this there and someone recently nominated an article they substantially contributed as "unreadable gibberish". I think that he's a walking Dunning–Kruger effect. 🤣

If his contributions would actually let people improve what he added I wouldn't have laughed at his incompetence as I would then think that he means well, but all he really seems to be doing is wasting everyone's time he interacts with, especially his own. I asked a few Chinese friends of mine to verify the quality of the content added (grammar-wise) and they just laughed it off. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:49, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: Sorry for not answering. I stopped being active on Commons due to many issues. I hope for your understanding. LX | Talk 15:06, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Chửi bạn

Srr vì chửi bạn cô, nhưng mà nó đáng vậy. Xem đời sống ngục tù đi. Krystal duyên lắm. Liar Game 1406 (talk) 04:58, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Vì tôi chửi bạn của bạn sao? Thế bạn nhờ tôi dịch làm gì, nhờ bạn của bạn ấy. Chiêu trò... June, Rain and Tears (talk) 14:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Tôi không phải bạn của bạn chắc? Bạn chỉ bảo vệ bạn của bạn thôi đúng không? Sao không nhờ vả bọn nó, nhờ tôi làm gì. Nhờ "soulmate", "đồng chí" của bạn ấy. Đã biết không nên dây vào mà cứ nhờ vả. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 14:48, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Bạn sẽ inbox nhóm bạn của bạn, và bảo rằng. Tao bảo thằng chó ấy cút đi rồi, trả thù cho chúng mày nhé. Chửi tôi đa nghi cũng được, nhưng thà nghi oan cho bạn còn dễ chịu hơn. Bạn nên hỏi ý kiến chúng trước khi nhờ vả tôi. Giờ thì làm ơn,xóa cái tôi dịch, dù chỉ là một đoạn nhỏ. Nếu bạn muốn tôi bớt tức thêm. Tôi không thể tin bạn nữa, cố thế nào cũng không được. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 14:58, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

@June, Rain and Tears Bạn chửi tục bị cấm là việc của bạn, tôi không care. Tôi bảo bạn không cần giúp, vì bạn bảo bận, bạn quay sang nói tôi cay cú vị bạn chửi "bạn" của tôi. Thật nực cười. Lúc trước chính bạn đề nghị tôi viết bài này, tôi không nhờ bạn, thi nhờ ai? Tôi đã dừng hoạt động bên này và tắt thông báo liên Wiki từ lâu, nên nếu không truy cập vào để tìm hình, tôi sẽ không nhận được ping. Nếu có chuyện gì, mời nhắn trực tiếp vào tôi tại Wiki tiếng Việt. LX | Talk 15:03, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

@Lệ Xuân Để phần khoa học kỹ thuật đó, ngay sáng mai tôi dịch. Tôi muốn có thế thôi. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 15:06, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Retirement

I understand why you'd retire as we're all unpaid volunteers and if you're not having fun being here or you're not feeling like you would actually enjoy being here then stopping from contributing is better for your own mental health. But as you claimed that you stopped because of some issues, I am now curious which issues those are (if you are willing to discuss those, mostly so I would know what problems to address with proposals in the future to keep more valuable users such as yourself if such an opportunity would arise). Anyhow, I wish you the best in life as this project will miss yet another valuable contributor to it. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:29, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Something that deserves your attention

Please see this message:

• https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MobileDiff/1065507414&type=revision

Perhaps you can address their concerns. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:46, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Tiếng (㗂), Âm (音), Ngữ (語), and Văn (文)

As your user talk page says that you've retired from the Wikimedia Commons I am not sure if you will read this, anyhow I still write to you as I know that this general topic interests you too. One thing that fascinates me is not just the evolution of language but how a language is called throughout the ages.

A decade or so ago I was going through sources about the relationships between the Tokugawa Shogunate and the Republic of the Seven (7) United Netherlands I found a multilingual dictionary that referred to the Dutch, French, and Japanese language as "Neder-Duitsch - Fransch - Japansch" and "Flamand - Francois - Japonais", this indicated to me that during this period Dutch people still saw their language as German, the French saw their language as "Frankish", and the French still associated the Netherlands with the French province of Flanders. A few years later I bought a book about "Vaderlandse geschiedenis" which explained that after the Napoleonic Wars the Prussians wanted the newly created Kingdom of the Netherlands to be a part of the German Confederation but that King William I of the Netherlands was against it, I can't remember where I read it but I read somewhere that King William I also supposedly "invented" the term "Nederlandsch" for the Dutch language to replace "Neder-Duitsch" as a part of national education to create a unique identity for the new Kingdom of the Netherlands.

This turned out to be utterly wrong, in fact the term "Nederlandsch" is over half a millennium old and dates back to the time when the European version of the printing press was just invented and people realised that Northern German and Southern German have evolved into different languages, hence Northern German was called "Nederlandsch" and Southern German "Overlandsch", a couple of decades later the term "Neder-Duitsch" was invented for the Northern versions of the German language(s). From what I can find the name of the Dutch language evolved like this "*þeudisk -> Duutsc / Dietsc -> Dietsch -> Duitsch -> Nederlantsch -> Neder-Duitsch -> Néder-Duitsch -> Nederduitsch -> Nederlandsch -> Nederlands" (or "Neder-Duitsch -> Afrikaans" in South Africa). During the 13th (thirteenth) century people from the County of Flanders referred to their version of German as "Vlaemsch" while during the Republican period people from Holland referred to their language as "Hollandsch", these developments all coincided with regional success and the creation of self-awareness for these regional identities. People in the Transvaal called their language "Hooghollandsch" while the language was officially called "Nederduitsch", while later they called the language "Afrikaans".

A few months ago I started looking for old dictionaries, an old Dutch-French dictionary more recent than the Japanese one used "Néder-Duitsch en Fransch" (Hollandais et François), while a Dutch-German dictionary uses the terms "Neder-Hoog-Duitsch - Hoog-Neder-Duitsch" / "Holländisch-Deutsch - Deutsch-Holländisch". The former indicates that the French started associating the Dutch language with the Dutch Republic rather than the French Province of Flanders, while the latter indicates that 18th (eighteenth) century German speakers didn't view the "Hollandic" language as German while Dutch speakers still saw their language as a version of German. There's lots of contradictory evidence of when Germans started seeing Dutch as a separate language, but the Prussian government most definitely saw it as a separate language when they administered Cleves during the 19th (nineteenth) century. Meanwhile the Dutch still saw their language as a version of German as late as 1945. In fact, the disappearance of the term "Nederduitsch" happened sometime during the late 19th (nineteenth) century in the Netherlands and early 20th (twentieth) century in the Kingdom of Belgium. This shows a somewhat assymetrical view of what the "German language" is, where "Germans" saw Dutch as a separate language the Dutch still saw their language as "German" for a considerable amount of time. Likewise, Medieval French people called their language "Romaine" (Roman), in the Western Latin world this term was replaced by local names but in the Eastern Latin world the language is still called "Romanian".

Something similar played in the Chinese cultural sphere, looking at the Vietnamese language's self-identification different terms seem to be used.

North Korean and South Korean have diverged quite substantially, this is an example of how politics affect languages, because of German re-unification these differences have largely disappeared in West and East Germany, while these differences remain the norm in Korea.

One thing I noticed is that I found that the word "Việt" was commonly used for the people and the country, but not that commonly for the language. In fact it's similar to German where the language was simply called "the people's language" or "the national language", in fact with North Korean (조선말 / 朝鮮말, Chosŏn'mal) and South Korean (한국어 / 韓國語, Hangugeo) we see this today as they have different names for the Korean language. In fact, they don't even use the same word for "language", North Koreans use the Korean term "Mal", while South Koreans use the Chinese term "Geo / Kŏ".

Looking back at old Vietnamese-language texts I see the terms Âm (音), Ngữ (語), and Văn (文) commonly used for languages, I can see "a parallel Vietnamese" where the language could have been called "Việt Ngữ" (越語). Anyhow，I can't seem to find a list of all the names that the Vietnamese language historically had and how it evolved and where the term "Tiếng Việt" (㗂越) was first used, maybe a good thing to investigate in the future. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 20:10, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Map

Concept image of the map I want to have created.

I'm not sure if you're retired enough to not take this request, if you're absolutely retired then I will assume that this request will not be replied to, but if you are interested then ping me. I won't go into too many details here about the request unless you are willing to take it up. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 19:51, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

If you're interested, it's this request. Otherwise, excuse me for spamming your e-mail inbox notifications you don't want... --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:11, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

File:Vietnam People's Public Security insignia.svg

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A barnstar for you!

Hê hê, trong khi Tàu nó mới ban cho một vòng đã lặng lẽ đổi avatar. Lẫm liệt quá. Marx nói không sai, lợi nhuận 300% thì có tự treo cổ mình lên, tư bản cũng làm. Thấy khoe mua nhà lại tưởng sắp cưới chồng rồi 💒. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 02:21, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Hàn mới có tổng thống mới, cực hữu. Ngài Moon phải thả thái tử, không thì chắc cũng đi tù. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 02:56, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Lập Kiên chó điên thì được dịp lên Twitter chửi Mỹ liên tục. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 03:04, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Cái kênh thằng Tây bạn đưa tôi, nội dung đa dạng, nói chậm nên tôi khá thích. Nhưng mà hôm rồi xem cái video thằng này ca ngợi tay Alexei Nalvany thấy nó cũng phèn thôi. Vụ ấy đúng kiểu lừa trẻ con vl, thuốc độc KGB mà lại không đủ sức giết nổi một người, trong khi tầm Putin, nếu sợ tai tiếng thì thôi, chứ đã muốn giết người đối lập thì thiếu éo gì cách. Chất độc thần kinh do Liên Xô nghiên cứu mà đầu độc xong vẫn tỉnh được, lại còn kể quá trình đầu độc kèm video. Sau Nalvany còn làm vlog gọi điện cho chính thằng đặc vụ FSB đầu độc mình, lên báo thì đồn đoán đấu độc qua ly cà phê, quần lót. Video diễn như giang hồ mạng VN ấy. Nhưng kênh của nó đa phần có eng sub đi kèm, không phải cái eng sub tạo tự động, nên tôi cũng bấm đăng ký, để luyện nghe. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 16:23, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Tsar đầu độc thằng vlogger mà vẫn còn cơ hội "nằm viện" xong về kể chuyện được nữa thì... FSB sang Việt Nam tôi dẫn đi mua thuốc chuột còn hiệu quả hơn. Putin cũng éo chấp, về nước lão xích thằng đó đi tù hai năm. Thế nên, cái video phân tích của chủ kênh hôm rồi bạn gửi, có mấy thằng "bạn" người Ukraine cũng chưa chắc đâu. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 16:27, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Hê hê hê, tôi đoán là bạn với chúng bạn ủng hộ Ukraine, bạn thì là người châu Âu có huyết hải thâm thù với Nga nên là lẽ dĩ nhiên. Nhưng như tôi nói theo thời gian, mọi thứ đã rõ ràng hơn, Zelensky xin vài cái máy bay còn không thằng nào dám ra mặt gửi, đẩy hết thằng này đến thằng kia, cuối cùng đẩy về thằng trùm là Mỹ. Hôm rồi, Pentagon tuyên bố chốt hạ thẳng là sẽ không gửi máy bay vì "sợ NATO và Nga tiếp tục leo thang căng thẳng". Zelensky phát điên, chửi EU om xòm vì không dám thiết lập vùng cấm bay, và cuối cùng, đành chịu chấp nhận không vào NATO nữa. Được súng ống buff đoạn đầu thôi, chả việc gì anh em châu Âu phải rút gan rút ruột ra mà chọi với Nga cả. Cái giả thuyết proxy war đang lung lay dữ dội. Quân Ukraine hầu như không thể tung ra hình ảnh các đội hình lớn, chủ yếu đánh du kích. Du kích mãi làm sao được, phải có Điện Biên Phủ, Khe Sanh thì mới thắng được, nhất là khi Nga đánh tới tận nhà chính rồi.

Việc Nga trong 2 vòng đàm phán gần đây với Ukraine luôn đặt vấn đề hành lang nhân đạo để dân thường rời khỏi các thành phố bị vây cho thấy họ đang cố tách dân thường ra khỏi quân đội Ukraine (những người mà Nga nói thẳng là dùng dân làm lá chắn sống). Phía Ukraine rất hiểu một khi dân di tản hết thì thành phố của họ, nếu không đầu hàng, sẽ giống Grozny năm 2000. Do đó, khả năng lớn là quân đội Ukraine sẽ ngăn cản dân di tản trở thành vấn đề sống hay chết với họ. Ngay cả đàm phán gián tiếp qua hai ngoại trưởng ở Thổ Nhĩ Kỳ thì cũng bàn nhiều nhất tới vấn đề hành lang nhân đạo.

Ngoài ra, có nhiều nguồn chứng minh Zelensky quay video bằng phông nền xanh. Hậu quả của việc tung quá nhiều tin giả đó là giờ Ukraine đăng cái gì cũng bị săm soi.

Chiến tranh thằng thua phải xem "thế" của các bên trên bàn đàm phán, mức độ hoàn thành mục tiêu chính trị mà mỗi bên đề ra, những vùng đất mà họ kiểm soát, bình định được. Hiện tại, Putin không nhân nhượng bất kỳ điều khoản nào so với vòng đàm phán đầu hết. Zelensky thì lên tiếng chấp nhận rút khỏi NATO, nói rằng "đàm phán là con đường tốt nhất để kết thúc xung đột", nghĩa là không sắt đá được nữa. Ngồi đếm thiệt hại, vài ba cái xe tăng cháy mà kết luận Nga "sa lầy" như bọn đầu đất trên FB thì quả thật hồ đồ. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 01:53, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Bạn bận thì tôi một thời gian nữa quay lại nhé. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 02:31, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Vừa mới lên bài, nay tôi làm bên Hội những người thích tìm hiểu lịch sử bằng tài khoản phụ. Ít ra môi trường bên đó không có mấy cái ganh đua toxic vớ vẩn, không bị ép làm cái này cái kia. Đọc thử coi. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 15:54, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Chắc tầm này đang xem đá bóng với Hoàng, tôi hôm nay cũng xem, quả ăn rùa đẹp vãi. Thôi, bye. June, Rain and Tears (talk) 18:10, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Thông cảm, nhà bao việc bữa giờ không rep được. Tôi sẽ đọc. LX | Talk 17:34, 18 March 2022 (UTC)